Door Scrunch Fix

[JoeIsuzu]

Here are the links to the parts I'm using:
Miniature Ball Bearing: 688, Dbl Shield, 8 mm Bore, 16 mm OD, 5 mm Wd, Alloy Steel Ring, 1
Item # 49DD82 (requires two)

Shoulder Screw: Std Shoulder Screw, M6-1 Thr Size, 11 mm Thr Lg, 30 mm Shoulder Lg, Std, Plain, 5 PK
Item # 6EU34

I'll update here about their suitability once I get them.

Jack

[Paul]

Hi Jack - -

I am having some trouble figuring out how your selected parts are going to work, so keep us posted.

If you have trouble the way you are planning, you might consider Charlie B's method which looks OK to me.

Paul

[JoeIsuzu]

Here's what I had in mind.

The shoulder bolts required drilling the hole out to 8mm (or in my case, 5/16"). Then they fit quite nicely.

But the cam doesn't quite align with the bearing. Some of that is because the hinge is worn and there's quite a lot of deflection with the spring in place. I suspect that once it's mounted and the door is supported by both hinges, I won't see so much deflection. But it's still a bit out of alignment, and there's no wiggle room. The bearing surface is almost exactly the same width as the cam.

I have one washer above the bearing, to move it down just a little. I'll try to get to my local Ace Hardware and see if I can shim it with more washers.

I think the idea of the flanged bearing was good, but worst case, I may need longer shoulder bolts, and then double up the bearing so that there are flanges on top and bottom.

am having some trouble figuring out how your selected parts are going to work, so keep us posted.

Paul, I'm guessing you may have looked at Grainger's sample picture. It was a much shorter shoulder bolt. Here's the actual one orded.

Jack

[Paul]

Jack - -
Perhaps a thicker and somewhat larger diameter washer under the bearing will keep the cam on the bearing?

Paul

[Red Truck]

Just as a comment, McMaster-Carr (besides Grainger) also carries the type of hardware you're using. I've used M-Carr for years for various fittings I can't find elsewhere. After comparing, I believe M-Carr is a little cheaper. Plus, if you only need one or two "widgets," they'll sell them that way, without you having to buy a whole bag of 25 "widgets."
If/when I develop the same door issue as yours, I might go with an Oilite oil-embedded flanged sleeve, with a shoulder bolt. /R

[JoeIsuzu]

Just as a comment, McMaster-Carr (besides Grainger) also carries the type of hardware you're using. I've used M-Carr for years for various fittings I can't find elsewhere. After comparing, I believe M-Carr is a little cheaper. Plus, if you only need one or two "widgets," they'll sell them that way, without you having to buy a whole bag of 25 "widgets."
If/when I develop the same door issue as yours, I might go with an Oilite oil-embedded flanged sleeve, with a shoulder bolt. /R

I decided I needed 35mm shoulder bolts rather than 30mm. So this time, I took your advice and ordered from McMaster-Carr. I was able to order two, rather than a bag of five (Grainger). Shipping was more than the items, but it was better than buying five of them.

And I moved this topic, to allow any member to reply. Once the discussion seems to settle down, it may be moved back.

Jack

[JoeIsuzu]

Here are pics with the 35mm shoulder bolt.

The shoulder is long enough that the bearing and washers ride fully on it. The not bottoms out before it can put significant pressure on the washers and bearing.

Jack

[Paul]

Jack - -

Looks good. Method # 3 !

If you need or want to you could use an elastic stop nut so as to not tighten things up too much. Or (not my fav) loctite for the same.

Paul

[JoeIsuzu]

Paul,

Good idea. I think I'll switch to the elastic nut once I'm done fiddling with it. I want to replace the washers with some slightly smaller ones, 1) to ensure they don't come into contact with the outer bearing race, and 2) so that the cam plate does not ride on the washers. I was unable to find smaller washers (or "shims") with a large enough inside diameter, but I will probably drill out some M5 washers to fit.

Jack

[JoeIsuzu]

Update on mine:
First, as I was tinkering with the placement the bearing and washers, the flanged rim just popped off completely -- so cleanly, I thought it was a washer. Then I noticed the plate that covered the bearings was no longer locked in place. And now I can't even find my other one, so I just installed it anyway. After hanging the new door, I see that the pulley is out of alignment with the cam plate. It seems to work, but not quietly.

So first I'll move one of the two washers from above the bearing, to below it. But I'm considering Paul and Josh's double bearing method. My 35mm shoulder bolt has room for another bearing, if I remove two or all three washers.

Paul, I didn't quite understand this part:

Then, as a 'belt and suspenders' approach to life, we also tightened up the cam pivot pin. To do this, we pressed the pivot pin out of the cast hinge. Then we used a 1/2 inch drill to slightly counter sink the pivot hole, allowing the pin to recess a bit and take the slop out of the cam plate.

And by the way, re-hanging a door is not as easy as I expected. The glass and the window operator mechanism are not even in it yet. I put something under it that was about the right height, and that helped. Are there other "tricks" to make this easier?

Jack

[puttputtinpup]

Update on mine:
First, as I was tinkering with the placement the bearing and washers, the flanged rim just popped off completely -- so cleanly, I thought it was a washer. Then I noticed the plate that covered the bearings was no longer locked in place. And now I can't even find my other one, so I just installed it anyway. After hanging the new door, I see that the pulley is out of alignment with the cam plate. It seems to work, but not quietly.
misaligned.jpg
So first I'll move one of the two washers from above the bearing, to below it. But I'm considering Paul and Josh's double bearing method. My 35mm shoulder bolt has room for another bearing, if I remove two or all three washers.

Paul, I didn't quite understand this part:

Then, as a 'belt and suspenders' approach to life, we also tightened up the cam pivot pin. To do this, we pressed the pivot pin out of the cast hinge. Then we used a 1/2 inch drill to slightly counter sink the pivot hole, allowing the pin to recess a bit and take the slop out of the cam plate.

And by the way, re-hanging a door is not as easy as I expected. The glass and the window operator mechanism are not even in it yet. I put something under it that was about the right height, and that helped. Are there other "tricks" to make this easier?

Jack

Finalman and I changed out a hinge (or both?) on my 84 automatic. I used jack stands underneath the bottom edge of the door and shimmed each
"V" with rags etc to get it real close. Getting the door all lined up again sonot would look right and close properly was a real challenge..

[gruff54]

On a Trooper, it is way easier to hang a front door if the fender is removed first. Dunno about the pups.

Mike

[JoeIsuzu]

On a Trooper, it is way easier to hang a front door if the fender is removed first. Dunno about the pups.

I found that if I attach the hinge to the cab first, the door itself doesn't get in the way. Yes, the fender does limit the distance you can turn the wrench, but it's not bad.

Finalman and I changed out a hinge (or both?) on my 84 automatic. I used jack stands underneath the bottom edge of the door and shimmed each "V" with rags etc to get it real close. Getting the door all lined up again sonot would look right and close properly was a real challenge..

It may have been beginner's luck, but the body lines matched up well the first time.

But it's coming right back off, because I have to tinker with the bearing and washers some more. I ordered four new bearings -- this time, without flanges, since the flange broke off without ever being subjected to real use. I'll use Paul and Josh's double bearing method this time.

Jack

[JoeIsuzu]

Sorry this thread is now so long. I may eventually copy a few posts into a "How-to" and leave the entire thread where comments/feedback are allowed.

Today, I replaced my flanged bearing with a pair of plain ones. It seems perfect to me (thanks, Paul and Josh!).

This shows where the bearings fit on the shoulder of the bolt.

Here they are, in place.

And finally, reassembled.

I'm pleased to report that mounting a door is easier the second time -- like lots of maintenance tasks.

Jack