Fuel Solenoid?

The place to discuss problems and routine maintenance questions and tips. This is for topics that are specifically diesel-related.
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ZombieResponse
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Isuzu vehicle(s): '84 P'up 2.2L, '85 Toyota 4x4 (C223 diesel)

Fuel Solenoid?

Postby ZombieResponse » Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:32 pm

So, we're talking about a 1984 MPG+ 4sp diesel that will not start.

The long story: The truck has always been great, and started fine this morning, drove ~hour to town for the farmer's market. We stopped at wal-mart briefly and there was a short hesitant before the engine stopped when I turned the key off. When we got to the market i had to turn the key 2x to shut the motor off. After 4 hours, when i tried to start it, it was slow, then a lot of smoke, uncontrolled RPM and died.... no more starting. There is no fuel getting to the injectors and running a hot wire to the IP i can hear it clicking, but no fuel. I replaced the fuel filter and have poured fuel down the line to the IP, and can watch that it sucks none.

Can the solenoid be removed and cleaned?

Oh a little more background: I added some fuel last night that may have been dirty or have water in it. I think it was pretty clean, but it was the last diesel on the farm and had been setting in that jug for awail.

Thanks all
'84 P'up 2.2l Diesel 4sp MPG+ (>60mi D/D)
'85 P'up 2.2l Diesel (gone)
'80 Toyota Land Cruiser HJ45 3.6l Diesel (farm use)
'84 Toyota with a C223 conversion
'85 VW Golf Diesel

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ZombieResponse
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Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:00 am
Location: West Virginia
Isuzu vehicle(s): '84 P'up 2.2L, '85 Toyota 4x4 (C223 diesel)

Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby ZombieResponse » Sat Oct 19, 2019 6:57 pm

ok, real-time updates:
I took out the solenoid and put it back in w/o the spring and plunger. The engine started, ran rough (i had 2 injectors cracked), i bleed the air closed the lines, and the engine raced. No throttle control, VERY SCARY!! I pulled off the fuel line and it stopped in a few seconds, fuel came foaming out of the line I removed. I'm gonna try to reassemble the plunger w/o the spring? I don't know, but I think I'm close. Maybe just a new part?
'84 P'up 2.2l Diesel 4sp MPG+ (>60mi D/D)
'85 P'up 2.2l Diesel (gone)
'80 Toyota Land Cruiser HJ45 3.6l Diesel (farm use)
'84 Toyota with a C223 conversion
'85 VW Golf Diesel

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ZombieResponse
Regular Member
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:00 am
Location: West Virginia
Isuzu vehicle(s): '84 P'up 2.2L, '85 Toyota 4x4 (C223 diesel)

Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby ZombieResponse » Sat Oct 19, 2019 8:53 pm

UPDATE:
The solenoid seems to function fine when bench tested. I reinstalled the entire unit with a hot wire directly on the battery. It took a while to get fuel to the injectors but once bleed, it raced again. I went through this a couple of times always with a racing engine as a result. Humm...Any suggestions?
'84 P'up 2.2l Diesel 4sp MPG+ (>60mi D/D)
'85 P'up 2.2l Diesel (gone)
'80 Toyota Land Cruiser HJ45 3.6l Diesel (farm use)
'84 Toyota with a C223 conversion
'85 VW Golf Diesel

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Paul
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Location: Central Calif Coast

Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby Paul » Sat Oct 19, 2019 11:46 pm

Make sure that the throttle lever has actually returned to the idle position.

Then, it is likely that the fuel control sleeve on the high pressure plunger has stuck in the full fuel position. This can happen if there is enough gum collected on the parts to cause the sleeve to stick.

You can try to fix this by removing the pump top and using a little lacquer thinner on the plunger to free the sleeve up while trying to work the sleeve back and forth until it is free. Here is a link to instructions on how to remove the top cover. viewtopic.php?f=13&t=6843
Third post down. Suck the fuel out of the pump before trying this.

Or, you can take the pump to a fuel shop for a rebuild. $.

Paul
'84 P'UP 2 wd diesel, 5 spd with 0.78 fifth gear and differential back to 3.73.

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ZombieResponse
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Isuzu vehicle(s): '84 P'up 2.2L, '85 Toyota 4x4 (C223 diesel)

Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby ZombieResponse » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:40 pm

I removed the cover on the pump and found that the lever/spring that pushes on the governor is cocked/twisted a bit. should this be? I got some photos, but can't figure out how to post. maybe this will work for some folks:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B94jaSvhcFX1YWZCcm5acTR4dmZuU01Fb0NGZ2Q0SmZCRTBN/view?usp=sharing
'84 P'up 2.2l Diesel 4sp MPG+ (>60mi D/D)
'85 P'up 2.2l Diesel (gone)
'80 Toyota Land Cruiser HJ45 3.6l Diesel (farm use)
'84 Toyota with a C223 conversion
'85 VW Golf Diesel

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ZombieResponse
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Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:00 am
Location: West Virginia
Isuzu vehicle(s): '84 P'up 2.2L, '85 Toyota 4x4 (C223 diesel)

Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby ZombieResponse » Sat Nov 02, 2019 2:51 pm

Maybe this worked as a photo:
Attachments
IMG_4146 (1).jpg
'84 P'up 2.2l Diesel 4sp MPG+ (>60mi D/D)
'85 P'up 2.2l Diesel (gone)
'80 Toyota Land Cruiser HJ45 3.6l Diesel (farm use)
'84 Toyota with a C223 conversion
'85 VW Golf Diesel

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Paul
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Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:14 pm
Location: Central Calif Coast

Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby Paul » Sat Nov 02, 2019 3:35 pm

I have not seen just this before. I think the fuel control collar has frozen to the plunger in the full fuel position (thus allowing full speed engine with no stopping it) and in this process has ripped the ball from the control lever (seen in the photo) and also bent the lever itself (this is the part I have not seen). Usually when the fuel collar seizes it will rip the ball out of the bottom of the lever but there is no visible damage to the top.

This is bad news as the control lever assembly is expensive (and maybe not even available). Also, since the collar has frozen to the plunger, it is very likely that the whole head assembly is bad and will need to be replaced.

I think your best fix is to find a replacement pump.

The seizure is likely due to contaminated fuel. The plunger and control collar are very close fitting parts and cannot tolerate any foreign material.

Paul
'84 P'UP 2 wd diesel, 5 spd with 0.78 fifth gear and differential back to 3.73.

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JoeIsuzu
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Isuzu vehicle(s): Original owner, '83 LS Diesel, 5-spd, 2wd, Long Bed, restoration in progress!

Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby JoeIsuzu » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:26 pm

There's a guy on eBay offering quite a few NOS (New, Old Stock) pumps at what I think is a quite reasonable price. If you're interested and can't find him, let me know.

Jack

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JoeIsuzu
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Location: Germantown (next to Elvistown), TN
Isuzu vehicle(s): Original owner, '83 LS Diesel, 5-spd, 2wd, Long Bed, restoration in progress!

Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby JoeIsuzu » Sat Nov 02, 2019 5:26 pm

There's a guy on eBay offering quite a few NOS (New, Old Stock) pumps at what I think is a quite reasonable price. If you're interested and can't find him, let me know.

Jack

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Paul
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Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby Paul » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:03 am

Jack - -

Those pumps are 6 cyl and are mounted on the opposite side of the engine (which makes a difference). Not much in them that would help Adam.

Does seem like an OK price though.

Paul
'84 P'UP 2 wd diesel, 5 spd with 0.78 fifth gear and differential back to 3.73.

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ZombieResponse
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Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:00 am
Location: West Virginia
Isuzu vehicle(s): '84 P'up 2.2L, '85 Toyota 4x4 (C223 diesel)

Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby ZombieResponse » Sun Nov 03, 2019 6:31 am

Wow, that is bad news bears. So, if I’m looking for a replacement unit does it have to be from this year p’up? It seems there are some VE type 4cyl pumps on eBay. Maybe not one from an Onan genarator but Would one off a VW work?
'84 P'up 2.2l Diesel 4sp MPG+ (>60mi D/D)
'85 P'up 2.2l Diesel (gone)
'80 Toyota Land Cruiser HJ45 3.6l Diesel (farm use)
'84 Toyota with a C223 conversion
'85 VW Golf Diesel

User avatar
JoeIsuzu
Site Admin
Posts: 20639
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:11 am
Location: Germantown (next to Elvistown), TN
Isuzu vehicle(s): Original owner, '83 LS Diesel, 5-spd, 2wd, Long Bed, restoration in progress!

Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby JoeIsuzu » Sun Nov 03, 2019 8:27 am

Paul wrote:Jack - -

Those pumps are 6 cyl and are mounted on the opposite side of the engine (which makes a difference). Not much in them that would help Adam.

Does seem like an OK price though.

Paul

Paul, I was referring to a seller who has been offering some pumps that were for the C223 and the 4FB1. I'll see if I can find the link. I suspect his listings expired.

Jack

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JoeIsuzu
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Location: Germantown (next to Elvistown), TN
Isuzu vehicle(s): Original owner, '83 LS Diesel, 5-spd, 2wd, Long Bed, restoration in progress!

Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby JoeIsuzu » Sun Nov 03, 2019 1:33 pm


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Paul
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Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby Paul » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:00 pm

Jack & Adam - -

OK, good job on finding those pumps. There is one (104749-1190) ( https://www.ebay.com/itm/Diesel-Injecto ... 0005.m1851) that is the exact pump for the 82 & 83 Isuzu P'up. There is so little difference in the pumps from one year to the next that they are mostly interchangeable. This pump should be good on an '84.

The cost is probably less than if we rebuilt it and replaced the bad parts. Still $.

Paul
'84 P'UP 2 wd diesel, 5 spd with 0.78 fifth gear and differential back to 3.73.

FiatSpider2
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Re: Fuel Solenoid?

Postby FiatSpider2 » Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:21 pm

This tells me that I am going to be even more careful about what I pour down the gullet of my 4FB1. That about what you can expect to pay for a running Chevette Scooter with the 4FB1 in it.
FiatSpider2 (4FB1 Isuzu Diesel powered 1978 Fiat Spider)