Veggie Wood Burning Stove

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Tigman
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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby Tigman » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:47 pm

Hey Gary, I finally got started on my hybrid wood/veggie stove. I'm taking your lead with the larger 1" npt to hold the adomizer body with the .750 x 1.00" phenolic/garolite tube as insulation. As you can see in the pics there is aprx. .040 open airspace between the npt and the phenolic. The set screws center the body/phenolic and holds them inplace. I hoping this will create the correct amount of added oxygen for the blow torch affect. I can always adjust this clearance. I estimated you have your nozzel apprx. 2" away from the side of the stove, I'm planning on welding the coupling into the stove wall, flush to the outside, I can then shorten the outside nipple to a safe cool distance away. Putting holes in the stove, moving them or closing them up is not a problem as I'm a descent welder and will use a mig. My hope is to have a mimimum of the oil spray hit the inside of the tube, I'm going to cut the remaining unused threads out for a smoother cleaner flow hopefully. Input will be valued.

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iPupGary
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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby iPupGary » Wed Jan 20, 2016 10:12 am

Clair,

It looks great! I think the larger opening that the 1” pipe creates is the best. It will have less restriction. The closer the atomizer to the wood stove the better as well, provided the tip doesn’t get too hot. This may require some experimenting to find the optimum design.

I like the set screws holding the atomizer in place. I’ve been meaning to do that upgrade. Something I’ve fail to mention is about every 2 to 3 days of use, you will need to clean out the pipe with some kind of ramrod. I use a large screw driver.

Make sure not to weld the pipe to the side of the wood stove. You’ll want the flexibility to experiment with various designs. We are going to need to find a design that deals with the soot issue. Our work is far from over. Nobody said this was going to be easy. The soot is probably the reason why the veggie wood stove has caught on.

Okay on that sour note, I’m limiting the amount I use the veggie wood stove because the soot is really an issue. I’ve been using veggie for 16 hours a day. I’m going to limit the use to about twenty minutes after I load the wood stove with wood and the wood stove is up to a piping hot temperature. The veggie really turbo charges the wood stove and gets the wood stove and the wood very hot. After that I turn off the veggie and burn only wood. The wood burns so much better when the wood stove is at a high temperature.

The soot didn’t become noticeable until after a month and a half worth of use. Having said that, I haven’t been very careful about turning off the veggie before opening the wood stove door. I’m sure having a positive pressure from the atomizer is causing soot vapors to enter the living space.

He re is my experience so far:

- Soot has three concerns. Health risks; you don’t want to breath the stuff. Two, it can make a mess. The dogs have been tracking it in off my back deck. And three you don’t want the stuff blowing around the neighborhood.

So if you live in a rural area and the prevailing winds are blowing in an area you don’t care about then you can burn it for a longer period of time. If you have a rain cap on your chimney this should help keep the larger particles from sailing too far and may deflect the larger particles downward.

Path Forward

After the winter burning season is over, I’m going to take my wood stove outdoors to experiment with various designs to find a way to reduce the soot. It is impossible to see the emissions output from the stove when it is connected to the chimney. Here are some ideas to move ahead with the project:

- The first thing we can do is talk to some oil burning experts that have dealt soot issues. I’m sure the oil furnace folks have had issues with soot in the past.

- Experiment with various fuel and air ratios. With a regulator we can control the air intake and with the flow control valve we can vary the fuel intake.

- Observe the how the emissions output varies as a function of stove temperature. I’m sure the soot is less of an issue when the stove is hot. This will give us an insight when we can turn on the veggie system. We can measure the wood stove wall temperature as well as the temperature of the escaping gases from the stove pipe.

- We could try to mix ethanol alcohol or other less toxic fuel to see how this affects the burn efficiency.

- We may find that veggie may not be appropriate to burn in an open free standing wood stove. A fixe box approach similar to oil furnaces may be a better approach.

- We could locate the stove outdoors and use water based heat exchanger to bring the heat into the home.

- And if worst comes to worst, we could make a simple water based air scrubber to clean the escaping gases from the stove. This would be part of the outdoor firebox heater exchanger design. The soot I’m seeing so far are larger particles that could be easily removed by an air scrubber.

I’m placing this project on the back burner for now. I’ll be focusing on my veggie processor. I will limit my use of veggie to 20 minutes after loading the stove to reduce the soot. I will probably create a simple computer controller to facilitate the goals documented in my earlier posts.

-Gary
1982 Chevy Luv 2wd short bed diesel w/ veggie conversion (under construction)
1999 Isuzu Trooper 3.5L Gas

Tigman
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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby Tigman » Wed Jan 20, 2016 11:21 am

Excellent report and analysis! Where can I get that 50 mil. inline small filter your using? I have used a catalytic disc a short distance above my wood stove in the past, burns all residue and eliminates creosote build up. May be a real possibility now. Thanks

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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby phil cottingham » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:57 pm

Usually when burning any fuel soot is a result of not enough oxygen to get a clean burn. Phil

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iPupGary
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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby iPupGary » Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:55 pm

Clair,

Excellent!!! My stove doesn't have a catalytic emissions device. This could play a huge role in reducing the soot. But make sure to turn off the veggie before opening the stove door. Having the possibility of a positive pressure from the compressed air could bring nasty soot into the living space. A simple toggle switch near the stove door should do the trick.

After the burning season is over it would be cool to take your stove in the South 40 and observe the emissions output as a function of various conditions. It’s too impractical to observe the emissions when the stove is connected to the chimney.

I wouldn’t use the mini T-filter. It plugs up after a few weeks of use. I would go with the 1” version. You should be able to go the entire burn season without having to clean the cleanable filter.

This is a 1.5" Y-Strainer for Comparison

IMG_1134 (1).JPG


Here is a compression of the 1.5” filter vs. the mini T-filter. The 1” filter is not quite as large as the 1.5” but is much larger than the Mini-T-filter. Be sure to get the 50 mesh (RED).


This is the company info. Click on the 1" for detailed info.

http://www.banjocorp.com/liquid-handling/t-strainer

You can buy one off eBay or Try FarmChem.com

Banjo Part Number: LST100-50V (with Viton Gasket)

Viton Gasket (also referred to as FKM) is included with LST100-50V and LST100-50 has the EPDM. Get the Viton seal. It's best for veggie. EPDM you'll have to replace in a year or so. Viton will last a long time!!!


I found the 1" Viton version here (good price, on Sale!!). Most suppliers don't stock the Viton (FKM) version:

https://www.kiscosales.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=29_508_1904_655_657&products_id=18907

-Gary
1982 Chevy Luv 2wd short bed diesel w/ veggie conversion (under construction)
1999 Isuzu Trooper 3.5L Gas

Tigman
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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby Tigman » Thu Jan 21, 2016 8:39 am

Gary, I had already gotten this one below, what I was asking about was the small white 50 micron filters in your vids. I'm having trouble finding them with the 50 rating advertised so you know what they actually are. Why do you think the mini T is plugging, with clean filtered oil how can this happen so soon? Is it the air the oil is expose to causing the oil to turn to the rubbery fruit leather effect?
Also the catalytic disc I mentioned fits into my stove pipe just like a damper in the 6" pipe, roughly 18" above the stove. You keep it open until stack temp reaches aprx. 500 deg. which ativates the platinum plated honey comb ceramic. The disc will glow red hot and ignite unburned gases, particles etc. as long as enough heat is maintained.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Banjo-LSTM050-5 ... Sw5ZBWHTMl

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iPupGary
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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby iPupGary » Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:57 pm

Clair,

I'm not getting any plugging anymore. I think I had some sludge on the bottom of my tank. The mini-T should be fine. Let me know your experience. It's a cool filter because it's easy to unscrew the bowl. One twist with a rag and it's off.

The P/N: LST550

If found the filter on eBay:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BANJO-LST550-Screen-50-Mesh-For-3DUE6-3DUF1-/221543053495?hash=item3394feb8b7:g:8tQAAOSwKtlWhx7V

I bought from Zorro and they were prompt and responsive... they have good prices too.

Here is the Banjo Corp web page. Replacement Parts:

(Has the Viton Seal Part number and the 50 mesh filter Part Number as well.)

http://www.banjocorp.com/replacenmentpart.aspx?id=1195

http://www.banjocorp.com/liquid-handling/1195-mini-t-line-strainer-_5-inch-clear-bowl-lstm050-50c


Okay Phil is right. I increased the air pressure from 8 to 10 PSI to 30 PSI and turned the flow control valve down to 1/3 turn open. The flame went from a lazy orange flame to clean burning white flame. I did a single check of the chimney and I did NOT see any large soot particles from the chimney. This may be the solution...time will tell. By the way, you'll need a hose clamp for the air at these higher settings. My vinyl 5/16" hose came flying off at 30 PSI from the hose barb.

Thanks Phil !!!!!

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The manufacturer recommended low pressure of 1 to 3 PSI so I never thought to try a higher PSI. I thought the siphon action of the atomizer wouldn't function correctly. But it seems to function fine. I think these low PSI rating are designed for Petroleum products with lower flash points.

Another thought Clair is to try the 0.1 GPH tip. Another way to increase fuel to air without higher PSI setting. The atomizer is a little noisey at the higher PSI settings...but not too bad though. Something else to try.

If we had the wood stove outdoors with a short stack connected to the stove, it would be so much easier to check the emissions as a function of various fuel to air ratios and other factors. It's very difficult to verify emissions from the chimney.

-Gary
1982 Chevy Luv 2wd short bed diesel w/ veggie conversion (under construction)
1999 Isuzu Trooper 3.5L Gas

phil cottingham
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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby phil cottingham » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:20 pm

Gary this is the same way an acetylene torch works. If you turn on the acetylene and light the torch you get a lot soot until you turn on the oxygen which make the gas burn cleaner. Phil

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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby Tigman » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:45 am

Good analogy Phil, easy to relate for those who have used a torch much. I hope to make more progress on my setup today, will post pics if possible. Are you doing any of this Phil? Clair

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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby iPupGary » Sat Jan 23, 2016 4:28 pm

Phil,

I never thought of that way. I don't use my torch much :)

I've pulled my atomizer out a bit to allow air to come in on the side and it really works great. Much more air than just cranking up the compressed air.

Air Side Intake.jpg


This baby is burning great now! Thanks again!!

Running about 45 PSI with atomizer partially pulled out. We should create a design that allows for the air to intake from the side with some type for valve or damper control. It would be nice to design it for a lower acoustic noise as well.

-Gary
1982 Chevy Luv 2wd short bed diesel w/ veggie conversion (under construction)
1999 Isuzu Trooper 3.5L Gas

phil cottingham
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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby phil cottingham » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:25 pm

Tigman wrote:Good analogy Phil, easy to relate for those who have used a torch much. I hope to make more progress on my setup today, will post pics if possible. Are you doing any of this Phil? Clair

No Clair, The only thing close I've done is drip wmo on the wood in a homemade barrel stove and it will get the barrel cherry red. Wmo is a lot easier to burn. Lower flash point. Phil

phil cottingham
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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby phil cottingham » Sat Jan 23, 2016 5:29 pm

iPupGary wrote:Phil,

I never thought of that way. I don't use my torch much :)

I've pulled my atomizer out a bit to allow air to come in on the side and it really works great. Much more air than just cranking up the compressed air.

Air Side Intake.jpg


This baby is burning great now! Thanks again!!

Running about 45 PSI with atomizer partially pulled out. We should create a design that allows for the air to intake from the side with some type for valve or damper control. It would be nice to design it for a lower acoustic noise as well.

-Gary

Gary probably you are more results from the add air than from the higher pressure. Just a guess. Phil

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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby Tigman » Sat Jan 23, 2016 6:26 pm

Well I did some work on the stove in the shop, that's going to be the prototype test. I have a near identical stove in the basement of my home. The one in the shop I fabbed from an old saddle fuel tank off a truck. The one in my home I made also but had the body rolled out of 1/4", the rest of the designed nearly the same. They are a combination down draft and regular air intake from the front. I incorporated 22' ft. of 3/4 copper tubing into my unit in the house which easily heats all my domestic hot water as well as the living quarters. I plumbed in an outdoor woodstove type A-coil to pull the excess heat when we're not needing domestic H2o. When burning the stove my water heater acts only as a storage tank, I circulate the water with a small hydonic pump. I easily heat 1080 sq. ft. of the basement, my first floor aslo 1080 all by gravity. My second floor (1080) holds the bedrooms (which I insulated between ceiling and floor) is kept warm enouh for good sleeping. I installed electric baseboard heat when we built, but rarely do the heaters come on.
I tack welded the 1" pipe nipple into the side of the stove. The round disc is aluminum which I pressed onto the pipe holding the valve. My thought is it will act as a heat sink and deflector.

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Tigman
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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby Tigman » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:53 am

I'm going to be at a disadvantage not having a glass door but already have your results Gary, to assure myself that this will work as hoped. I get very little smoke when the door is openned as draft pulls air in.

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Re: Veggie Wood Burning Stove

Postby Tigman » Thu Feb 04, 2016 10:16 am

First of all I'd like to thank iPupGary for his outstanding efforts, time and sharing of this project. I would still be in the pondering mode had it not been for his initiative and unselfishness in providing this information, the pics and videos. Here are my latest advances on my veggie supplemented wood stove. As I mentioned earlier I'm using my shop stove as my prototype. I’m hoping at some later date to incorporate this into my home unit. I'm going to try to upload a video, not as nicely done as Gary’s but hopefully it can be helpful. Thanks again Gary, keep sharing, please.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=domuiMw ... e=youtu.be