IsuzuPup.com

"If there's ever a nuclear holocaust, the only thing left will be cockroaches and Isuzu diesels." (author unknown) This site is dedicated to the humble little Isuzu P'up.
It is currently Mon Sep 22, 2014 9:12 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Forum rules


Please click here to view the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 5:57 pm 
Offline
Regular Member

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2080
Location: VA
Ok, I'm tired of messing around trying to find a needle in a haystack. There are no gen 3 rods to be had and I am giving up. So, being the engineering type of feller that I am, I am taking things into my own hands.

I picked up my crank today after having it turned from that broken rod, I got real lucky and they only had to remove 15 thousandths which is the minimum. I started talking to the man that gave me my crank about everything I need to do to the block, have it magnafluxed, hot tanked, etc... He explained that they offer a very nice service, when I get everything together, bring up my bearings, cam, pistons, crank and mains, main caps, and rod caps and they will assemble and torque everything with a computer torqing machine, then they dip it in some kind of tank, spin it up and balance the entire motor after it is assembled... Top of the line shop I tell you.. and CHEAP too!!! They only want 140 for the service I just described... oh and I almost forgot, they install cam and bearings for me too at that price.

Then we started talking about the inherent weakness of the isuzu turbo 2.2 diesel rods... WELL, he said.. you did notice that we are less than 5 miles away from RIR (Richmond International Raceway), and I've been building race engines for over 30 years now. Technology has come a LONG way since that little trooper was born. I can put you a toyota 4 banger together and have it crank out 400 horsepower with off the shelf parts.

The secret is in the rod and the turbo. You tell us how much horsepower you need and we get the rod and turbo to match it... He also told me that any 4 cylinder diesel that produces 65 horsepower with a 400 horsepower rod in it, you might as well just forget about EVER breaking another rod. All we need to do is to get the specs of your gen 1 rod.

I need thickness, center to center length, crank journal measurement, and wristpin measurement. We can come up with something exactly, or very close on center to center length, you have just a little bit of room to widen the bearing surface, and we'll turn your crank again to match the rod. We may have to line bore the wristpin bearing but thats no issue at all... But we'll use an off the shelf rod, so we can keep the price way down.

So.. with that being said.... can ANYONE dig up the exact specs for a gen 1 rod so that I can get started finding the rod to work with please? Or tell me where to find those dimensions?

I'll keep this post up to date..... and I'll either document a dismal failure, or maybe just find a way to put a lot of turbo diesel troopers back on the road.... wish me luck guys!


Attachments:
Trooper crank 002.JPG
Trooper crank 002.JPG [ 488.16 KiB | Viewed 1452 times ]

_________________
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel LS Red
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel White
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel LS Blue

"If by "drag machine" you mean a little truck to transport cross dressers then it should work out just fabulous" VeggieNate
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 6:38 pm 
Offline
Regular Member

Joined: Fri Dec 14, 2007 11:25 pm
Posts: 1240
Location: Puyallup, WA
Sounds great Ed! You deserve a break today. Good luck.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:46 pm 
Offline
Regular Member

Joined: Thu Jan 03, 2008 8:36 pm
Posts: 412
Location: Central Ohio
Ed, if you pull this off (the rod deal "cheap") you'll be the "MAN", everyone on this forum will be after that info for the "SUPER ENGINE". You also need to talk to this guy about pistons, those are all that's needed to prevent these engines from becoming extict. We need some inexpensive STD. and OS pistons ava. Boy that would be alot of our dreams come true to build a high HP indestructable 4 cyl. engine for our trucks or troopers. Good luck, we'll all be rootin you on! Clair


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 7:55 pm 
Offline
Regular Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:54 pm
Posts: 2231
Location: Arkansas
More power to you Ed. Glad that these resources are showing themselves. Please keep us updated as I am VERY interested in this outcome!

_________________
Jared
1986 Isuzu Pup diesel, 5spd, dual 3" stacks, custom 7' flat bed

Image
Check it out at http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2946804


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:17 pm 
Offline
Regular Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 18, 2004 11:28 am
Posts: 381
Location: Glenville, PA
Hey Ed, great news and exciting nonetheless. Heck, if it turns out to happen I'll buy 4 of the rods just to have them and I don't even own a C223-T diesel engine (haha)!

Sal

_________________
1982 Chevy LUV diesel
2.25" stainless exhaust
w/ MagnaFlow performance muffler
1986 Isuzu Trooper II diesel
265/75/R15 tires
Centerforce dual-friction clutch
w/ 81 C223, needs a turbo!
1981 Chevy LUV Mikado 4x4 diesel
Sold/Traded for a 1988 Isuzu FSR


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:00 am 
Offline
Regular Member

Joined: Thu May 03, 2007 9:07 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Jewell Ridge, VA
HELLO ED, GIVE JLEMOND A PM HE HAS THE SPECS YOU ARE LOOKING FOR. ALSO GIVE JOEISUZU A HEADS UP ON THIS VENTURE. IF IT WORKS OUT IT WILL BE AN AWESOME ADDITION TO THE HOW TO GUIDE,

P.S. I THINK 130 HP WOULD BE AND IDEAL GOAL-PLENTY OF POWER AND WITHIN THE LIMITS OF YOUR DRIVETRAIN.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:08 am 
Offline
Regular Member

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2080
Location: VA
I didnt really plan on increasing horsepower, I am simply interested in reliability. Im not sure the boost can be turned up on a stock turbo diesel can it? If so, we might have the best of both worlds... :D

_________________
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel LS Red
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel White
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel LS Blue

"If by "drag machine" you mean a little truck to transport cross dressers then it should work out just fabulous" VeggieNate


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 12:17 am 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 9:11 am
Posts: 16738
Location: Germantown (next to Elvistown), TN
You have my attention! I'd like to see where this goes.

Jack

_________________
Original owner, '83 LS Diesel, 5-spd, 2wd, Long Bed (currently in "rehab") | '94 Amigo 2.6L, 5-speed, 2wd
JoeIsuzu@IsuzuPup.com (email & Google Talk)
Edit your Profile & Location
Edit your Signature
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 7:03 am 
Offline
Regular Member

Joined: Mon Jan 29, 2007 12:23 pm
Posts: 1790
Location: Burke, VA
Ed,
WOW!!
Sounds like a wonderful opportunity.
I'd like to turbo my NA engine just to squeek say 15 more HP out of it..nothing crazy.
Eric

_________________
81 Long bed PuP 2.2 Diesel
Using Bio-D


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:01 am 
Offline
Regular Member

Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2008 12:00 pm
Posts: 15
Location: Ventura, CA
Good on ya Ed ! keep us posted, I know I am very interested in the outcome.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 10:21 am 
Offline
Regular Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 06, 2007 8:41 am
Posts: 174
Location: polk city, fl between tampa & orlando
JoeIsuzu wrote:
You have my attention! I'd like to see where this goes.

Jack



Yes Ed you have all our attention for sure

I had wondered if other parts could be rewoked to use in our engines but not being around the muscle car/high performance guys any more I have at lot of questions but no one I know personaly to brain storm with

mike

_________________
aka-Bigdog

91 2wd- 223 n/a ,5speed ,3" body lift
05 colorado, wifes car


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 31, 2008 1:56 pm 
Offline
Regular Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 16, 2008 6:24 pm
Posts: 2699
Location: oregon
with stronger rods, that lower compresson. (though harder to start)
and a diffrent head with bigger valves.
youd have N\A reliability, with turbo power
close to 2.8 power (if) a person wanted it.

_________________
soot fart wrote:
if god had intended for us to drive automatics, he wouldn't have given us two feet


rust free frame 1981 4wd luv for sale no engine\trans Cliky to see

hearsthe
weather forecast for NW OR
10 Commandments of Hypermiling


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 3:42 am 
Offline
Regular Member

Joined: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:36 pm
Posts: 857
Location: North Plains, OR
I have a set of first gen rods in the shop. I will dig them out tomorrow and work on getting the critical dimensions.

Just curious but what happened to the rods from your motor? Just wondering why you don't have a rod to measure...

_________________
'82 P'up Diesel 4x4___'86 P'up TurboD 4x2
Image Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Jan 02, 2009 10:24 pm 
Offline
Regular Member

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2080
Location: VA
I have a rod to measure, and I did that. But I have a harbor freight micrometer and we all know how accurate those are. If I could find the original blueprint specs I would feel much better about getting the right rod. I would however, like to see if you come up with the same measurements that I did just for comparison sake.

I did get the ball rolling and sent an email to Summit Racing Technical Support. Jerry is supposed to be hunting up the blueprint specs for me and as I work with Summit Racing I will use Jerry's measurements instead of mine.

Here's the letter I sent Summit Racing:

I spoke to the man at the Napa Machine shop next to the Richmond International raceway about my 1986 turbo diesel Isuzu Trooper with a 2.2 litre diesel engine.

You may or may not know any history on that particular truck, but they werent made long nor were the engines very tough - that is with the exception of the ones that were repaired by the factory. The rod casting 3066 was the first rod designed, and then was replaced with casting 3234. Some of those started breaking so on the last few replacements they had to do on the remaining warranty vehicles they redesigned casting 3234 and made it so tough that not one of them have broken to date that I know of. exactly ZERO of those 3234 rods were ever produced for sale to the public.

It would be easier for me to get struck by lightnight than to find a set of 3rd gen 3234 rods, so the man at Napa suggested that I contact you with my measurements and see if you could find something close.

Keeping in mind that I have the ability to widen bearing width by a mm or 3, I can have the crank turned down to match something close and I can also have the wristpin bearing center line bored to match my wrist pin.

So, could you, would you PLEASE help me find a rod that I can use that won't break at 25,000 miles like the rest of them... The guy at napa told me that a little old diesel producing 65 hp with one of your 400 hp rods in it would never ever again have to worry about breaking a rod.

Here are my measurements.

Connecting Rod Length Center To Center (in): 15.25 cm or 6.0085 inches (I think we can get away with 6 inches exactly)
Connecting Rod Beam Style: I-beam
Connecting Rod Material: prefer Forged 5140 steel
Connecting Rod Finish: Shot-peened
Wrist Pin Style: floating
Wrist Pin Measurement 29.00 mm 1.1425999999999998 inches (remember I can line bore something with a smaller wrist pin)
Clearanced for Stroker: No
Cap Retention Style: Thru-bolt or dont care
Connecting Rod Bolt Brand: dont care
Connecting Rod Bolt Diameter: dont care
Connecting Rod Bolt Material: prefer 8740 chromemoly steel but dont care
Fastener Yield Strength (psi): dont care
Connecting Rod Bolt Head Style: dont care
Pressurized Pin Oiling: No
Approximate Connecting Rod Weight (g): dont care
Big End Bore Diameter (in): 56 mm 2.2064 inches
Pin End Bore Diameter (in): 35mm 1.3605 inches
Advertised Horsepower Rating (hp): dont care but 500 hp would be fantastic
Advertised RPM Rating: 6,000 rpm, although its not really capable of doing more than 3500 rpm
Weight Matched Set: would be nice but not necessary
Remanufactured: preferred but dont care
Balanced: dont care
Magnafluxed: Yes
Quantity: 4

Rod thickness at piston end 30.00 mm 1.182 inches
Rod thickness at crank end 30.00 mm 1.182 inches

I will keep you posted on the reply.

_________________
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel LS Red
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel White
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel LS Blue

"If by "drag machine" you mean a little truck to transport cross dressers then it should work out just fabulous" VeggieNate


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:22 pm 
Offline
Regular Member

Joined: Thu May 01, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2080
Location: VA
I have spent the better part of the day looking at connecting rod measurements. I have found lots of rods with the correct, or close bottom end bore diameter, the correct center to center length, but the problem I am coming up with is the Pin end bore diameter. it seems that NOBODY makes a rod with a bigger pin end diameter then .97 inches. Our pin end bore diameter is 1.3605 inches.

to me, thats WAAAAY too much metal to be cutting away and I think I would be weakening the pin end to the point that it would be worthless.

Now, I need a real gearhead to answer this one.

I know that our wristpins are floating, meaning that there is a bearing in the small end of the rod, and the pin just kinda floats in there, with pretty close to exactly the same size as the bore with the bearing.

Then, I see that there are pistons that have press fit wristpins, which of course, are pressed in with a piston heater and pressing apparratus... nothing up top moves except for the pin on the piston.

Here is what I'm thinking.

If I take a floating rod with a .97 bore that has a pretty thick looking bearing and line bore that dude out and turn the piston into a press fit piston, that would cut away very little metal and our 1.14259 mm wrist pin will fit in there just fine. (now as a press fit pin)

But what does that do? I realize that it will cause 33% greater wear on the piston wrist pin holes themselves but will this really hurt anything?

thoughts? suggestions? Ill talk more to summit on Monday, they've been on vacation since I had the idea so I have just been spending some time doing some homework so I might have some good suggestions and know what I will run into when I talk to them.

_________________
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel LS Red
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel White
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel LS Blue

"If by "drag machine" you mean a little truck to transport cross dressers then it should work out just fabulous" VeggieNate


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 59 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group