Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

This is the place to discuss DIESEL engine modifications.
joeshmoe44883
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Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by joeshmoe44883 »

Seeing how a lot of questions get asked about turbocharging, and the lack of parts to do a "factory" style conversion, I thought i'd take some pics and start a thread for anyone interested. I bought my c240 September of last year (2012) to swap the gear drive over to replace the timing belt system on my 223t. It had around 500 hours of use on it and came out of a street sweeper. I didn't know it then, but this happened to be the only version that came with these style manifolds. I scrapped the frame it was on, so I don't know what brand/ model sweeper it was. but parts should still be easily available.
There are some differences between my c223t manifolds, and the c240s. there is a only a couple mounting lugs missing on the c240, I think the lugs are where the 223t metal intake elbow bolted on. these missing lugs shouldn't pose any problems for any diy'r. another difference I noticed was the 223t exhaust manifold was heavier, with casted-in strengthening ribs to support he turbo's weight. While this is good, a simple bracket can be made to do the same thing on an n/a motor. This is essential, an improperly and flimsly mounted turbo will vibrate and eventually fatigue and crack whatever its mounted to. The manifold should never support the weight of the turbo, unless it was designed and made to. I took some pics for everyone to see.
IMG_20130901_114938_212.jpg
IMG_20130901_120048_825.jpg
That's the 223t factory t2 turbo sitting on the c240's exhaust manifold.
That's the 223t factory t2 turbo sitting on the c240's exhaust manifold.
This is the exhaust flange that came off the c240's manifold. its sitting on the turbos exhaust inlet side. you can see the bolt pattern is close, but not perfect.
This is the exhaust flange that came off the c240's manifold. its sitting on the turbos exhaust inlet side. you can see the bolt pattern is close, but not perfect.
c223t intake manifold on the bottom, c240 on top.
c223t intake manifold on the bottom, c240 on top.
same here, c223t on the bottom, c240 on top.
same here, c223t on the bottom, c240 on top.
The 240 is on the right, stands taller and is more blended than the 223t on the left
The 240 is on the right, stands taller and is more blended than the 223t on the left
c223t exhaust manifold on top, and c240 on the bottom.
c223t exhaust manifold on top, and c240 on the bottom.
If you look close, you can see some small differences. internally the c240's intake manifold is way larger and is blended nice. this will help lower egt and boost temps and would overall just let the engine breathe better. The exhaust manifold needs machined a lil bit to better benefit the turbo. The turbo will be able to sit level and normal, unlike the 223t that sits backwards, and is tilted.
My original plan was to make an adapter in order to mount the turbo. since the holes are so close I think it would be better to either weld in the holes, or thread in some bolts and cut them off, then drill and tap new holes.
2 86 Trooper II diesels, one 4 door the other 2, both projects.
86 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer with factory 2.1L turbo diesel.
05 Jeep Liberty Limited with 2.8L diesel (totaled)
06 Chevy Silverado with duramax
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee ecodiesel
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OzarkDaredevil
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by OzarkDaredevil »

Keep the pix coming!
Tom
'81 4x4 diesel LUV - daily driver
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FlukeGE
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by FlukeGE »

Joe,

Great info and pictures!

Thank you,

Ryan
1986 Trooper Gen III
1999 with 4JG2 Coversion
joeshmoe44883
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by joeshmoe44883 »

hey ryan!

thank you, maybe with a little bit of work, a cheap "turbo kit" can be put together for those who want to turbo, but don't know much about them. ill have more pics and info when the turbo comes in later this week. I still need to comb it over with a mic, but I think its going to be an almost perfect turbo. then its build my second, backup 223, so I can put it in my trooper and have some fun, once it comes back from getting all prettyied up and the body shop. maybe ill meet ya at the national meet after all. *fingers crossed*
2 86 Trooper II diesels, one 4 door the other 2, both projects.
86 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer with factory 2.1L turbo diesel.
05 Jeep Liberty Limited with 2.8L diesel (totaled)
06 Chevy Silverado with duramax
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee ecodiesel
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FlukeGE
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by FlukeGE »

Joe,

That would be great if you can make it. Put some pics up when it comes home. A turbo kit for the c223 would be a great thing.

Ryan
1986 Trooper Gen III
1999 with 4JG2 Coversion
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OzarkDaredevil
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by OzarkDaredevil »

FlukeGE wrote:Joe,

That would be great if you can make it. Put some pics up when it comes home. A turbo kit for the c223 would be a great thing.

Ryan


X2 !

Tom
Tom
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arz
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by arz »

I'd also be interested in the gear drive timing setup...
1981 P'up diesel. base trim. pretty close to bone stock.
lserd.oldrp
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by lserd.oldrp »

will that crank shaft fit in the c-223 block ?? are the mains the same diameter between the two ? make a c-223 in to a stroker engine ! would you know this information ?
1984 Isuzu pup N/A 2.2 Diesel 5 speed 3.42 gear Short bed.
Up grade's gt2052 turbo, 86-87 volvo inter cooler, 4'' cold air intake, 3'' Exh. aero diesel turbine muffler.
joeshmoe44883
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by joeshmoe44883 »

The c 240 mains are almost a half inch bigger in diameter. I was gonna grind one down to fit, but that meant getting a shorter rod and that gonna was gonna throw some stuff out ta whack. The 223 sits pretty good at 88mm bore X 92mm stroke. Making a stroker out of it would lower the rpm limit and would cause greater wear in the bottom half of the cylinder walls.
2 86 Trooper II diesels, one 4 door the other 2, both projects.
86 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer with factory 2.1L turbo diesel.
05 Jeep Liberty Limited with 2.8L diesel (totaled)
06 Chevy Silverado with duramax
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee ecodiesel
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OzarkDaredevil
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by OzarkDaredevil »

Joe, did the turbo show up?

Tom
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joeshmoe44883
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by joeshmoe44883 »

Tom,

Yes it did, however some drama unfolded. I sent the payment, he sent the turbo but never accepted the payment, after it canceled at the 30 day mark he emailed asking if I was gonna pay or if he should get eBay involved. What's worse is when I got it I inspected it and found the bearings to be shot to the point that the compressor wheel contacted the housing. Not sure what's gonna happen.
2 86 Trooper II diesels, one 4 door the other 2, both projects.
86 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer with factory 2.1L turbo diesel.
05 Jeep Liberty Limited with 2.8L diesel (totaled)
06 Chevy Silverado with duramax
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee ecodiesel
joeshmoe44883
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by joeshmoe44883 »

I finally got to measure the gt1752 turbo. I'll post the factory specs first. For those who done know turbo terminology, here's a crash course. The compressor wheel is on the front, it sucks the intake air in, compresses it, and sends it to the engine. It is mounted on a shaft that goes to the back of the turbo. There is the turbine wheel. Actually the shaft and turbine wheel are one piece, and is called turbine shaft. This is responsible for handling the exhaust gas of the engine. It is what spins the compressor wheel to give you boost.
There's 2 measurements on each component, and it is the diameter of the wheel in that area. Inducer, IN gives the clue that this is the area of the wheel that the air is going into the wheel. On the compressor wheel this will be the small measurement, and is the blades you can see when you look at the front of the turbo. On the turbine shaft this will be opposite, the exhaust gas goes in the big part of the wheel first, so this will be the big measurement. Next is the exducer, ex obviously means the area the gas exits. This will be the big measurement on the compressor wheel, and the small measurement on the turbine shaft. The ratio or difference between the 2 measurements gives you trim, which tells you if the wheel is designed for high flow, or more response. I won't explain that now. Anyways here's what I measured.

Factory 223T turbo:
Compressor
Inducer: 37.15mm
Exducer: 48mm

Turbine shaft
Inducer: 46.54mm
Exducer: 35.40mm

Garrett GT1752S turbo off Saab 9.5
Compressor
Inducer: 38.20mm
Exducer: 51.80mm

Turbine shaft
Inducer: 42.75mm
Exducer: 36.60mm

As you can see, the 1752 compressor wheel is slightly larger (~1mm) on the inducer, but is almost 4mm bigger on the exducer. This means the wheel will put out a lot more flow an pressure.
The 1752 turbine is smaller on the inducer, and almost the same on the exducer. This means boost should come on sooner.
I can get some pics of the 2 turbos side by side if anyone wants. I'm hoping to get started on the exhaust manifold soon, that'll be the easy part.
2 86 Trooper II diesels, one 4 door the other 2, both projects.
86 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer with factory 2.1L turbo diesel.
05 Jeep Liberty Limited with 2.8L diesel (totaled)
06 Chevy Silverado with duramax
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee ecodiesel
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OzarkDaredevil
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by OzarkDaredevil »

joeshmoe44883 wrote:Tom,

Yes it did, however some drama unfolded. I sent the payment, he sent the turbo but never accepted the payment, after it canceled at the 30 day mark he emailed asking if I was gonna pay or if he should get eBay involved. What's worse is when I got it I inspected it and found the bearings to be shot to the point that the compressor wheel contacted the housing. Not sure what's gonna happen.


Are you going to use this turbo?
Tom
'81 4x4 diesel LUV - daily driver
joeshmoe44883
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by joeshmoe44883 »

I don't think so :( when I took the housings off the damage was worse than expected. It needs new bearings, compressor, compressor housing, and turbine shaft. In my search for another, I came across the Garrett gt1548. The compressor measures the exact same as the factory 223t. Same turbine shaft as the 17. Its the smallest turbo that still has the t25 inlet flange, and as a bonus, has the same bolt pattern on the back that would allow the 223t weird exhaust elbow to bolt up. This not only means it will make a great turbo for a conversion, but also a great replace/upgrade for a factory 223t.
Only downside is one place I found it online, it was $1,000. I'll keep looking though, that site is usually on the high side.
I machined on the exhaust housing tonight, got it ready to layout the t25 bolt pattern. Will drill and tap it this week. I seriously think I'm going to try to use the gt1548. I'm still waiting on gauges, I want to record and provide real data for the forum, showing what all changes swapping turbos, housings, adding intercooler, etc. Been waiting almost 4 weeks for the gauges, apparently they don't sell very many air intake gauges, so was waiting for that to get made before they shipped.
I'm more excited about swapping intake manifolds and adding the intercooler than I am swapping turbos.
2 86 Trooper II diesels, one 4 door the other 2, both projects.
86 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer with factory 2.1L turbo diesel.
05 Jeep Liberty Limited with 2.8L diesel (totaled)
06 Chevy Silverado with duramax
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee ecodiesel
joeshmoe44883
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Re: Using c240 parts to turbocharge your c223

Post by joeshmoe44883 »

Got the specs for the gt15. pasted it on here next to the gt1752 for comparison. I found it on a couple other sites for $640. Not too bad.

Factory 223T turbo:
Compressor
Inducer: 37.15mm
Exducer: 48mm
Turbine shaft
Inducer: 46.54mm
Exducer: 35.40mm

Garrett GT1752S turbo off Saab 9.5
Compressor
Inducer: 38.20mm
Exducer: 51.80mm

Turbine shaft
Inducer: 42.75mm
Exducer: 36.60mm

Garrett GT1548
Compressor
Inducer: 37.2 mm
Exducer: 48.0 mm

Turbine
Wheel: 41.2 mm
2 86 Trooper II diesels, one 4 door the other 2, both projects.
86 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer with factory 2.1L turbo diesel.
05 Jeep Liberty Limited with 2.8L diesel (totaled)
06 Chevy Silverado with duramax
2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee ecodiesel
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