diesel engine swap

This is the place to discuss DIESEL engine modifications.
oly
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diesel engine swap

Postby oly » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:03 pm

I have a 88 chevy s10 and have been kicking around the idea of putting a diesel engine in it. does anyone have any experience with this swap? I have the chance to buy a engine out of a 81 luv, my pickup has a 2.5l 4 cylinder gas in it what all is needed for this swap, does that diesel have a computer to run or is it all mechanical. if i have to start changing and modifying alot i will just leave it.

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JoeIsuzu
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Isuzu vehicle(s): Original owner, '83 LS Diesel, 5-spd, 2wd, Long Bed, restoration in progress!

Re: diesel engine swap

Postby JoeIsuzu » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:53 pm

A few questions:
Is the '81 diesel transmission available, and is it 5-speed?
What rear end ratio does your S-10 have?
Can you get the wiring harness from the diesel donor? (or at least all the glow system?)
Are you in a hurry?

No, there's no computer needed to manage that Isuzu diesel.

Chevy offered this engine in the early years of the S-10, and it had some differences, but nothing huge. The biggest difference is, they used their own transmission (actually a Borg Warner), and it required a special bell housing to mate with the diesel. Without that bell housing (and they're RARE), you are pretty much locked into using the weaker Isuzu transmission. They also used a stand-alone, belt-driven vacuum pump (the Isuzu has the vacuum pump on the back of the alternator). The S-10 had its own air intake system, but the Isuzu one should fit just fine. There were other difference, but less significant. So, if you have an '81, with the alternator, and glow system, I think you have most of what you need. I'm not sure about motor mounts.

You will probably need to use some universal coolant hoses to make it all connect, and you may have to flip the thermostat cover around, depending on which side the top hose is on. The bottom hose definitely points the wrong direction (Chevy had their own water pump to remedy that).

You will have to vent the fuel tank if it's not vented, and run a return line back to the tank.

Speedometer may need correction, depending on the rear end ratio and difference in tire sizes.

Somebody tell me what else I've forgotten.

Jack

oly
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby oly » Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:09 pm

I dont have much info on the engine. my s10 has 3.73 gears in the rear diff. would i need to get the radiator for the diesel, i believe i can get it also. i will try to attach a photo of the engine, i did'nt take this photo.
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edwright
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby edwright » Sat Apr 24, 2010 8:18 pm

you'll need the radiator out of the isuzu, or you can buy the s10 V8 conversion radiator, which has the hoses on the correct sides, and plus you'll never want for more cooling, thats a big radiator they sell for the conversion. you can find those on ebay.

Ed
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel LS Red
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel White
1986 Trooper Turbo Diesel LS Blue

"If by "drag machine" you mean a little truck to transport cross dressers then it should work out just fabulous" VeggieNate

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JoeIsuzu
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby JoeIsuzu » Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:32 pm

oly wrote:my s10 has 3.73 gears in the rear diff.
If the Isuzu was a 5-speed, it was set up for 3.73 gears. So if your tire diameter is the same as the P'up, you won't have an issue with the speedometer/odometer.

edwright wrote:you'll need the radiator out of the isuzu, or you can buy the s10 V8 conversion radiator, which has the hoses on the correct sides, and plus you'll never want for more cooling, thats a big radiator they sell for the conversion. you can find those on ebay.
I would not use the radiator from the '81 Isuzu. It reportedly did not cool well, and the design was changed in '82. I'd do as Ed suggested.

Jack

oly
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby oly » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:37 am

the engine does not come with the wiring harness and it had a manual trans but the guy already sold it. I get 23 mpg with my gasser in town and about 30 out on the highway what kind of mileage could I expect with a diesel.

oly
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby oly » Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:48 am

Im sorry guys for not clarifying myself, this diesel is out of an 81 chevy luv, if that makes any difference.

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PUPdiesel
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby PUPdiesel » Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:44 am

Well, if it was out of an 81 Chevy LUV then it had a 5-speed manual trans as it was the only choice you had behind the diesel in 1981. It was the first year the diesel engine was an option from Isuzu in either the LUV or the PUP. Having the engine wiring harness and transmission would have been two extra things really nice to have had with the engine for a conversion. As far as the 88 S10 goes it is probably just about the best choice for a conversion truck because you said it has the 3.73 gearing (which does match the LUV gearing), has the 2.5 4-cylinder where the diesel engine closely matches its size, and hopefully you have a manual trans in the truck so you don't have to convert over from automatic. That would be a lot of extra work you could do away with if it's a stock manual trans truck. Of course the easiest thing to do is to find a factory 84-85 S10/S15 truck for parts to convert yours over, but like stated above they are quite rare. I mean PUPs and LUVs are easier to find, given they made more of them.
1986 Isuzu Trooper II diesel
265/75/R15 tires
Centerforce dual-friction clutch
w/ 81 C223, needs a turbo!

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JoeIsuzu
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby JoeIsuzu » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:59 pm

You're going to need an Isuzu diesel 5-speed transmission. Chances are slim to none of finding a Chevy/GM C223 bell housing.

Jack

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ZackaryMac
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby ZackaryMac » Sun Apr 25, 2010 4:45 pm

Not sure about oil pan configuration between the Pup and the S10. The S10 pan is deep at the back of the motor, and there is not a lot of clearance between the front cross member and the oil pan. The C223 weighs about as much as a 4.3L gas, so that is another thought, though probably not really an issue. If you can find a S10 diesel for parts, the conversion is simple then.
1994 S10 ext cab w/C223 + 5 spd
Had 1991 Sonoma ext cab w/C223 + 5 spd
My S10 on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxDhlAci7y0

Tigman
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Isuzu vehicle(s): Factory 1985 S10 2.2 Diesel, 1989 Isuzu 4x4 2.2 Turbo Diesel, 1999 Chevy Suburban 6.5 Turbo Diesel

Re: diesel engine swap

Postby Tigman » Tue Apr 27, 2010 10:56 am

I have several factory S10 diesel trucks, both 4 and 5 spd. trans. with factory stickers in the glove box showing the truck specs. The diff. ratio in all of them are 4.10, I'm guessing the 3.73 would be a dissappointment regarding start off and power, ie. constant downshifting. You can probably modify the oil pan to work, I have seen this done.

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ZackaryMac
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby ZackaryMac » Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:08 pm

Tigman
I have 2 factory S10 diesels and they both had 3.73 rears. You're in the US I see. Maybe the two countries had different ratios? Who knows.
4:10 would make pulling away with a load nicer, but with the 3.73's I have now, with 235/60-14 rear tires, and the diesel T5, it revs about 3000rpm at 62mph/100kmh. The 4.10 would be even worse, if you do any amount of highway driving.
Personally, I'd love to have either a T56 (6 speed) or a 2 speed rear end. All it takes is a lot of money that doesn't exist. :lol:
1994 S10 ext cab w/C223 + 5 spd
Had 1991 Sonoma ext cab w/C223 + 5 spd
My S10 on Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxDhlAci7y0

oly
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby oly » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:04 pm

how can you identify these little motors. say for example you find a small four cylinder diesel at a swap meet or a auction. are there any casting numbers or something to tell you what it is?

S-10 luv'r
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby S-10 luv'r » Fri Apr 30, 2010 3:29 pm

The motor number is in the casting of the block. usually on the driver side of the engine. The C223 number is by the 3rd freeze plug just above it.
Diesel, Diesel. Love my Diesel MPG.
My Vehicles:
1985 S-10 2.2L C223 Diesel (not a conversion) original owner
2 Spare C223 engines for the life of my S-10
Joined to give and get help on C223 engine topics

S-10 luv'r
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Re: diesel engine swap

Postby S-10 luv'r » Fri Apr 30, 2010 4:13 pm

I have converted engines between the S-10 and Isuzu P'up or Chevy Luv. But never have had the two different truck next to each other when doing this.

Just bought an Isuzu P'up/Luv engine from a wrecking yard.

The engines are mostly the same except for the following parts:
This is a list of parts that are different in the S-10 compared to the Luv or P'up:
Upper oil pan and lower oil pan these are S-10 only, Your Luv or P'up oil pan configuration may not fit into the first generation S-10. You will most likely have to have the S-10 type oil pan.
Oil pump pickup tube only due to the different S-10 oil pan configuration. Oil Pump is the same.
oil dipstick and tube due to different oil pan configuration.
Valve lifter cover due to different oil pan configuration.
Fuel pump is different on the S-10 but the Luv or P'up fuel pump will work without any problem.
Water Pump / Fan / fan clutch is Different on The S-10. one outlet for the water bypass on the water pump points in a different direction. but you can use the P'up/luv water pump if you use the fan and fan clutch from the Luv/P'up engine. The S-10 diesel used the V-6 radiator for a standard tranny. But try to adapt a P'up/Luv radiator. and let everyone here know how it turns out. it will save you money on water pumps. the rebuilt price for a S-10 diesel water pumps is $59.00 at AUTO ZONE. before core charge.
The clutch is different on the S-10 but if you use the Isuzu Bell housing and tranny use the Izusu Clutch.
The S-10 used a hydraulic Clutch setup. I don't know what the Izusu/Luv used for the clutch linkage. you'll have to ask some one else for that info.
The Bell housing
Pilot Bearing may be different but I'm not sure on that.
the Valve cover is different on the S-10 due to different oil pan configuration and the crankcase ventilation device that Chevy used but if you have the crankcase ventilation device from the luv or P'up you should be able to use that.
the engine crankcase ventilation pipe that bolts onto the passenger side of the S-10 engine is different. (If you change the oil pan and Valve lifter cover get that part as well. it bolts onto the valve lifter cover).
The Valve cover is different on the S-10. The PCV device mounts in a different place on the S-10 valve cover. (the S-10 valve cover does not have the Isuzu name on it either).
The motor mounts i believe are different for the S-10 diesel compared to your 2.5L engine. Changing the motor mounts involves taking the suspension apart to get the front springs out of the way just to change the motor mounts. GM did it stupid and put a nut and bolt setup to secure the motor mounts to the frame.
The water outlet with the thermostat housing is different on the S-10. It points in a different direction compared to the P'up/Luv engine. if you use the P'up/Luv radiator use the P'up/Luv thermostat setup.
All engine accessory mounting brackets are different on the S-10 for the AC, Power steering and vacuum pump. I think the alternator bracket may be similar and you should be able to use the P'up alternator if you adapt the electrical wiring for the alternator. But that is just my guess I've never done that. But it would save you from the S-10 Vacuum pump setup. The AC bracket may be the only one you may need unless your S-10 has no AC. (but since I don't know exactly what the bracket setup is like on the P'up/Luv I can only give you a rough Idea. I am willing to send pictures of the S-10 bracket setup if you contact me.
One thing that is not very common knowledge about the S-10 diesel Alternator is that the tachometer reading for the Dash gauge is taken from a terminal on the Alternator.

That's most of the differences between the two versions of this engine. If I remember anything else I'll post it later. I'm not saying don't do the conversion but I am letting you know the differences I have found when installing an engine into my Factory S-10 diesel.

You can find this S-10 Diesel engine at a "few" wrecking yards right now but most of them want about $1,500.00 for the engine. you might get the bell housing with the engine but you would have to ask.


You might spend less money on one of the S-10 pickups selling on Ebay at the moment. just do a search at Ebay for "S-10 diesel". currently 3 selling at the time of this posting. average selling price is about $2,500.00 for most of the S-10 diesels I have watched.

As far as MPG the S-10 should get 36 Hi-way and about 33 city. although my wife claimed about 40 Mpg on a trip one time.

GOOD LUCK with you project.
Diesel, Diesel. Love my Diesel MPG.
My Vehicles:
1985 S-10 2.2L C223 Diesel (not a conversion) original owner
2 Spare C223 engines for the life of my S-10
Joined to give and get help on C223 engine topics