Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

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Bellski
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Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby Bellski » Fri May 25, 2018 11:02 pm

Hi everyone--

First off, It's important to start with two facts: bear with me here...

1.)While I am smart enough to have *always* wanted a little, insanely long lived, durable, efficient, mechanical dieseI truck (whoops I meant a P'up lol),I am as ignorant as most of you are brilliant at this stuff--and I mean that literally; I can point out what some stuff is and change oil, tires, or an alternator but that's it unless I do a LOT more homework-- and

2.). that the previous owner of my Pup told me he set the timing forward a little to get a bit more "oomph", but that if I gunned it up a hill it would blow black. I did not think too much of this as he was obviously far more versed than I. He had about ten 'daily drivers', though, so when i bought her I instantly started throwing miles on her that she had not been getting. And yes she blew black if pedal was to the metal......

And in short order, she developed an oil leak...I thought...which was very minimal at first and then became awful. Being short on time and with little skill and no proper manual (only Chiltons) I took her in for diagnostics.

I was told that I had no oil leak, all my main seals/gaskets and common leak culprits looked fine (dry) and pressure was good....(Which makes sense seeing as every time I checked my oil it was more or less fine, and no other oil loss symptoms (overheating, raspy running, etc)....but that I had a fuel leak from my injection pump and needed a full rebuild, to the tune of 2k total.

At which point I miraculously came up with some time for more detailed investigation of my own.

The fuel leak is actually coming from what looks like the gasket between the Cold Start Device and the main body of the injection pump.

So it would SEEM that a few fuel drops were dissolving black gunk, making it look like dirty dripping oil right under the CSD, and then got quicky worse until it was leaking fast enough to be losing practically clear fuel. Now from what I have read here, CSD problems in and of themselves (ie if injection pump was still fine) can be a factor in black smoke production, loss of efficency (besides losing fuel), etc.

But could there be more than meets the eye? My questions are as follows:

1.) Is there a chance of a less well known oil leak near that area getting obscured by the fuel leak?

2.). Could having the timing set too far forward cause this, or other related damage?

Im thinking about the actual injection pump, my injectors etc. again i know I woefully ignorant don't hate me lol... I am blowing enough exhaust when i am not paying enough attention to my driving that my tailgate is now covered in soot (ie none at start up, not much putzing around town or cruising at highway speed -none going up a hill UNLESS I was not at proper speed (Ie can go 65 uphill and maintain most of my speed but if I don't downshift or slow down when I start losing momentum its choke smoke city). You can see the black in the picture.
And finally,

3.). I will, of course, be adjusting timing back to factory as well as grinding down a cheap 10 mm box wrench to replace CSD gaskets--thanks so much to everyone who posted and reposted on where to get parts, detailed instructions, etc. Super grateful!
But....

how filthy is my engine now, and what corrective actions should I take?

I know enough not to start throwing random cleaners in there (Sea Foam etc) but now the right stuff recommended by the right people is a different story. I'm thinking in terms of "right now"(get her back on the road and cleaned out a bit) and "the near future". (What I should do next in order to more fully recover from this). Ie am I foolish to not go ahead and rebuild the IP now, do I need to prepare for injector clog etc)

Whew that was an effort in and of itself, hope i did not overwhelm. Trying to keep it simple AND cover all my bases, I love my ol gal and she drives like a champ. I just want her to last long enough for me to catch up to the repair/maintenance learning curve! Thanks in advance for any responses.
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puttputtinpup
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Re: Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby puttputtinpup » Sat May 26, 2018 12:32 am

In short (because I have to get back to work) the CSD can be deleted. It advances the timing at startup. If it's piston gets stuck, it can affect the timing.

The black smoke may go away or be reduced if timing it set correctly. I've never had to do mine, so no good to you there. The previous owner may have messed with the little screw at the rear top of the pump called the full load screw. Disturbing it could cause a fuel leak.

New CSD gasket sets are available but the gasket between the pump and CSD body comes in an injection pump kit.

There's more information in the how to section under 'diesels'. Paul is the injector pump expert here. Knows them inside & out.

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Paul
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Re: Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby Paul » Sat May 26, 2018 12:53 am

Bellski - -

I think that probably all of your performance troubles are caused by the fuel leak you have found. When fuel leaks from the CSD joint at the pump housing it will disable (m/l) the timing advance. This, in turn, will result in power loss and much black smoke.

I suggest fixing this first and then see how the truck runs. I suspect it will run much better and be OK. Also, I don't think any damage will have been done to the engine. Don't do anything else to the engine until you have this fixed.

The Oring that seals the CSD is 27mm inside diameter and has a 3mm cross section. Ordinary nitrile rubber is OK. I can send one of these to you if you will PM me with your contact info.

That is a good looking P'up!

Paul
'84 P'UP 2 wd diesel, 5 spd with 0.78 fifth gear and differential back to 3.73.

Bellski
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Re: Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby Bellski » Sat May 26, 2018 11:37 pm

Putputtinpup: I will check that screw. I have a sneaking suspicion you may be right, as I considered the possibility of multiple leaks. Definitely keeping the CSD though, i change altitudes amd temps regularly. But good to know what to look for if I still have problems after leak and timing are resolved. I had her out in the Sierra Nevadas over Christmas and I was afraid to be too far out in the cold as it was my first cold trip. It only got just below zero, and I got paranoid and woke up every few hours to start her lo lol ...but I had no problems, she started every time.
Now if it was twenty below......

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puttputtinpup
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Re: Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby puttputtinpup » Sun May 27, 2018 6:06 am

Do what Paul suggests 1st. Don't disturb the full load screw if it's not leaking. Mine was leaking at one time so I took pictures and measured the exposed threads, slot position on the screw, etc so I'd be sure to get it back to the same exact setting after replacing the O-ring.

Good luck!

Bellski
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Re: Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby Bellski » Mon May 28, 2018 9:31 pm

Ok duly noted. Thank you. I still have do do a good engine bay clean before I can rule out any other leaks but I will take a pic even before cleaning just in case.

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puttputtinpup
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Re: Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby puttputtinpup » Tue May 29, 2018 1:01 pm

DO your engine cleaning with engine cold. I ruined an oil cooler by pressure washing it with the engine hot

Bellski
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Re: Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby Bellski » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:01 pm

Well today is the day for the CSD gasket replacement....the tire is off, my wrench is ground down, the pictures well studied.....ok but frankly I am terrified.

But here goes.

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JoeIsuzu
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Re: Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby JoeIsuzu » Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:26 pm

Are you changing the flat washer, or the o-ring?

Jack

Bellski
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Re: CSD leak repair

Postby Bellski » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:53 pm

I have and am trying to do both but I can’t getthose last two bolts to get between the CSD and the pump body. *sigh* holy moly.

The old flat half metal half rubber washer that was by the big spring in the CSD did not even have a lip on it anymore so hopefully that helps, but if i can’t get the other bolts removed to do the o-ring its pointless.
Back to the grindstone to thin the wrench some more, and some detail cleaning around the bolts i guess? It looks like i only have 2mm clearance between the bolt and the CSD body on the front, and I dont even know if i can get the wrench that thin without ruining it. As for the back bolt, i can barely even see it. Hm.

Bellski
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Posts: 13
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Isuzu vehicle(s): '81 P'up 4*4 4spd diesel shortbed

Re: Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby Bellski » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:54 pm

Looks clearly like it was leaking at both spots but much more heavily at the pump juncture.

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Paul
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Re: CSD leak repair

Postby Paul » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:35 pm

Bellski wrote: Back to the grindstone to thin the wrench some more, and some detail cleaning around the bolts i guess? It looks like i only have 2mm clearance between the bolt and the CSD body on the front, and I dont even know if i can get the wrench that thin without ruining it. As for the back bolt, i can barely even see it. Hm.


I assume you have seen the photo of the wrench I modified but I will post it again. Make sure that you have a twelve point wrench as a six point will not give you enough angular accommodation. Keep grinding until you can get the wrench on the nut. It is the only choice I know of other than to remove the pump.

Paul

Slimmed & Trimmed Wrench for CSD Nuts.jpg
Slimmed & Trimmed Wrench for CSD Nuts.jpg (99.32 KiB) Viewed 125 times
'84 P'UP 2 wd diesel, 5 spd with 0.78 fifth gear and differential back to 3.73.

Bellski
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Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Dec 10, 2017 9:09 pm
Location: Willow Creek CA
Isuzu vehicle(s): '81 P'up 4*4 4spd diesel shortbed

Re: Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby Bellski » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:35 pm

I finally got it! Broke my trimmed down wrench, so took off cover plate underneath and the battery and with a lot of finagling finally got it.. cutting off the broken end to make a stubby wrench gave me the room i needed. The key to the rear bolt (done from above) was using a thin metal rod to slide the washer and nut down and a flat head screwdriver underneath the bolt so they wouldnt fall, then using one of my fingers that was holding the screwdriver to start threading the nut.

Unfortunately i didnt realize how easy it is to over-torque rhose front bolts, and i felt the last one snap as i was going around tightening each one.

FORTUNATELY it didnt break, only stretch, so I got it safely backed out. O man was i freakin out for a minute.

Now to install the new bolt and fire her up. Fingers crossed.

Will post pics when i get some time.

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Re: Timing was set high/CSD leak/black smoke: possible IP or other damage?

Postby B.Scott » Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:10 pm

When i replaced my CSD seals i pulled the passenger side wheel off, and inner fender if i remember right. Then i could use a lomg extension to remove the bolts. 82 4x2 2.2


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